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Mintlou

ESL Outbreak Winter 2017 - RESULTS

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2 hours ago, Joji said:

XHEdVT6.png 

ayyyy shout out to all the 🅱oys

👏Dont👏mention👏me👏unless👏you👏have👏three👏awards👏from👏one👏game👏

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12 hours ago, Lewis said:

Teams are NEVER going to be fair in an OB tournament, this is something that I just can't understand why some people don't understand.

This isn't professional CS, where a team ranked #15 can easily defeat a team ranked #5 if they have a good day. The skill gap in OB is large, it's a community, there are players who are better than other players every single day of the year.

We've tried:
-Grouping everyone by CS rank - and ensuring each team has the same amount of ranks
-Grouping everyone by CS rank - then adapting some ranks who may be too high or too low, as MM ranks can sometimes be distorting
-Ranking players from 1-40 on our opinion, then using a sound system to ensure each team has a fair number
-Ranking players from 1-40 on our opinion, coupled with the opinion of those who know the OB competitive scene very well
-Even having captains just pick their own team

Each and every time, people will moan that teams are unfair. I've given the reason for that above - another possibility is that there's an uneven amount of 'very high' skilled players in the community, so often - two or three teams can have 2 very high skilled players while another team only has one.

I guarantee if people put time into getting to know their team, practising, learning nades together, working out the best maps, instead of moaning that 'I've only got a supreme, while they have a global' - you could easily win.

 

This was more about the fundamental teams which get picked, not gonna get into the subs cos I don't really know what happened.

It's very easy to see what may have cause the imbalance of teams in this tournament. (personally don't think this one was even imbalanced much compared to other tournaments and haven't really heard any complaints myself)

  • The picking system has to Change or removed. We have seen in several tournaments now that first pick and second pick have been terrible in tournaments. This is easy to see why. You, in theory, give the captain with the lowest skill first pick. Which, sounds fair. But that captain has chosen from a pool of players who are in theory not good enough to be captains in the first place. So you just end up with two players who can't compete with the better captains. For example, Jgreg and Liutvi vs Me and Brandon. Or Thunder and Lusty vs Kai and some random Global. I know who I would put my bets on to win. Then the worst part is, those two players who can't compete with the best captains, they are then given the worst players of third/fourth pick and then are given the worst players in the tournament.
  • Clear skill gap in captains. With several people not being available due to the timing of the tournament, that meant that several players like sov,mike and lewis weren't there to be captains. Like Thunder(sorry bae), Jgreg and Eagle should never have been captains this tournament. 
  • Complete nobodies showing up for the tournament. I understand Nadey has played the sever. But I can safely say I have never seen him post anything on the Forums and never go on TS and never have competed in any gathers. Other players I can safely say no one knew at all include but are not limited to: Maj. Brewzer, Suddone, VictoreM, Jaka. (Albeit some are stand-ins, but still have 0 place in an OB tournament) I had never met half of my team which I played on the first day with. Reduce the amount of teams, to something like 6 next time if the sign ups are short. This could have also solved the clear disparity in captains. If any captain before Kai knew how good nadey was before hand I'm sure he wouldda been picked sooner. If people knew Maj was decent I'm sure he wouldda got picked ahead of some people.
12 hours ago, Lewis said:

-Ranking players from 1-40 on our opinion, then using a sound system to ensure each team has a fair number
-Ranking players from 1-40 on our opinion, coupled with the opinion of those who know the OB competitive scene very well

As far as I know, 'our opinion' was basically just you and some input from Unseen on how good the players were. Ranking 1-40 based on more than 2 people's opinions is still a good idea.

(You have ranked Chus(Someone who you barely knew and only saw play a few tournament games) over Sovman historically one of OB's best players..) Which ended the Spring Tournament before it actually began and worst of all you gave me Brandon. Also that Spring tournament had by far the worst teams I had ever seen in an OB event.

12 hours ago, Lewis said:

Each and every time, people will moan that teams are unfair. I've given the reason for that above - another possibility is that there's an uneven amount of 'very high' skilled players in the community, so often - two or three teams can have 2 very high skilled players while another team only has one.

Only one team in this tournament had 2 'very high skilled' players and that was Kai and Nadey and that was only because no one knew who nadey was. This was by far the best tournament in terms of not having overpowered duos in any particular team.

 

12 hours ago, Lewis said:

I guarantee if people put time into getting to know their team, practising, learning nades together, working out the best maps, instead of moaning that 'I've only got a supreme, while they have a global' - you could easily win.

Got told the night before the teams.

 

12 hours ago, Lewis said:

-Even having captains just pick their own team

We all knew the picking system was broken in the 2016 tournament, had since then either has been ignored or not improved upon. I mean, we kinda tried letting captain picking their own team. Using a picking system that gave the worst captains in the tournament the worst 3rd player and worst player in the tournament.

We could have tried to improve on the picking system used in the 2016 tournament, there have been a few suggestions for this.

My personal favorite was (I think Vengence's idea) Was that every player would be given a monetary value and that the captains would have to work from a certain budget.

I would really want to see this tested in the Summer tournament and would be far more than willing to help.

Edited by Danny

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3 hours ago, Danny said:

My personal favorite was (I think Vengence's idea) Was that every player would be given a monetary value and that the captains would have to work from a certain budget.

if this is applied i think that monetary value should be influenced on the last tournament they played in (rank being the main factor)

Edited by Akame™

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2 hours ago, Danny said:

My personal favorite was (I think Vengence's idea) Was that every player would be given a monetary value and that the captains would have to work from a certain budget.

 

 

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https://rankade.com/

use one of the many ranking systems available on the internet to calculate ELO within gathers and tournaments this will allow you to calculate how good people are in relation to one another in OB instead of relying on the WORST ranking system (Valve's) and your own (biased) opinions, as more and more games are played this will get better and better, and it'll be fun to compare your elo to your fellow members elo and watch as people try to take the #1 spot from others

i'm gonna start doing this with the league gathers, and see how it works

Edited by Chris Lord

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On 10/01/2018 at 02:16, Danny said:

My personal favorite was (I think Vengence's idea) Was that every player would be given a monetary value and that the captains would have to work from a certain budget.

I would really want to see this tested in the Summer tournament and would be far more than willing to help.

This idea sounds good, however whoever picks brandon first will immediately go under their set budget, being forced to play with 3 bots, meaning that less people would be in the torny and meaning that brandon would get to use all the bots, making it an ez 16 0 for the lord and saviour himself.

 

On 10/01/2018 at 15:54, Chris Lord said:

https://rankade.com/

use one of the many ranking systems available on the internet to calculate ELO within gathers and tournaments this will allow you to calculate how good people are in relation to one another in OB instead of relying on the WORST ranking system (Valve's) and your own (biased) opinions, as more and more games are played this will get better and better, and it'll be fun to compare your elo to your fellow members elo and watch as people try to take the #1 spot from others

i'm gonna start doing this with the league gathers, and see how it works

how is this going to work chris, if i'm going 14+/0 with supports in every role category in gathers. i believe i would be breaking the elo system as i am abusing overpower champion supports to climb to challenger elo in gathers. this would auto make me best league player in the system and i don't want to be first captain because i'm not a meta slave like...

other high ranked garbage.

 

:halo::halo::halo::halo::halo::halo::halo::halo::halo::halo::halo::halo:

 

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3 minutes ago, Sovman said:

This idea sounds good, however whoever picks brandon first will immediately go under their set budget, being forced to play with 3 bots, meaning that less people would be in the torny and meaning that brandon would get to use all the bots, making it an ez 16 0 for the lord and saviour himself.

 

how is this going to work chris, if i'm going 14+/0 with supports in every role category in gathers. i believe i would be breaking the elo system as i am abusing overpower champion supports to climb to challenger elo in gathers. this would auto make me best league player in the system and i don't want to be first captain because i'm not a meta slave like...

other high ranked garbage.

 

:halo::halo::halo::halo::halo::halo::halo::halo::halo::halo::halo::halo:

 

it'd be bants

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On 12/01/2018 at 10:40, Futurebounds said:

Glad to see you all having fun!:glad:

 

On 12/01/2018 at 11:50, Pasickle said:

your mam de big sex

 

On 12/01/2018 at 13:23, Akame™ said:

your'e ded mey

this whole sequence has indefinitely made urine spill out of my 🅱enis

Edited by Joji

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