Veteran Changes

[Skillershark 43]

Can't say I know too much about the tension between vets/mods/members/whoever but just thought I'd throw my opinion out here.

What I think was attempted here was to, effectively, state that instead of having veterans appreciated for being in the veteran group, they should simply be appreciated from people knowing about what they have done, and not just looking at the fact they are in the veteran group and saying "wow, they've been here awhile" I think there may have been a slight overreaction to being removed from the veteran group, because veterans may feel like the tag was special in some sort of way, representing how important they were to the community. But the idea is that the veteran group was simply for long-time members, it was not meant to be special in any way. Yes, people may have looked up to veterans and realized they played a big part in the community, but surely they should be able to do that just by knowing how much the individual person has done.

Now, although I've tried to say what I think this little update was about, that's not to say I agree with it. Yes, after being in the community for a little bit you should probably know how significant each veteran has been without looking at their tag, but you can't just expect new people to join and instantly know how much somebody means to the community. The veteran group was there because, generally, after being a member for two years, you would have contributed quite a bit. I think there is nothing wrong with having active long-time members having their own groups. After reading what some other people have written, I'm not sure how much is true but some of what is written is quite shocking. I'm not sure if any mods are under performing right now, so I can't say anything on that, but surely the idea of having applications and trials for moderators is to get the best possible, and if you don't have enough mods, surely that is better than having some terrible mods. If any mods are too afraid to deal with veterans who are acting inappropriately, they need to learn that they actually have, not only responsibility, but to put it simply, a bit of power from being a mod. The only thing veterans have over mods when it comes to running the server and sorting stuff out is experience and their voice, so mods certainly shouldn't be afraid to sort out veterans.

I don't know about any hate between Conor and the veterans, but clearly if it is so, it is unprofessional and dislike between persons should not affect decisions on the server, and certainly not people who aren't directly involved.

I feel that the veteran group was fine the way it was, but this change is still far from "punishment". The veteran group itself was never actually relevant, it was always the veterans themselves, and some people need to realize that. Yes, it is easier for newer members to realize who was important to the server through those who have the veteran tag, which is partly why I think the change should be reverted, but the change is in no way a sort of downgrade or whatever. Veterans are still exactly who they were before, all that is being done is that they are being recognized if they take an active part in the community, which isn't that bad.

[inmylife 5]

@tony

You're correct. Half of us being mid twentys we simply find it awkward socialising with children, which surely can be understood.

I don't understand, please explain.

[SonyTwan 1,208]

@tony

You're correct. Half of us being mid twentys we simply find it awkward socialising with children, which surely can be understood.

I don't understand, please explain.

this post just reinforces our point

[Iszuka™ 10]

IMO:

- I do believe Veterans should be acknowledged in some way that is obvious to the other users in the community.

- Veterans should be members who have consistently been around for a set number of years and contributed to the community enough to be notable.

This is a reward for their dedication and stripping them of this status should only be done in dishonorable circumstances.

- Veterans who are absent for long periods of time should not lose their status by default. If a user's contribution to the community is ever enough to warrant Veteran status then stripping them of this status is almost to say that their contribution was never acknowledged in the first place. No matter how long ago it was.

- Veterans should have no perk other than a different coloured name. They are distinguished members and nothing more. No diplomatic immunity. All rules and regulations apply. To assume otherwise must be dis-encouraged.

- Issues with individual Veterans should be dealt with like any other member. Vets should not all be painted with the same brush.

- If Veterans are seen communicating with eachother more than they are integrating with the rest of the community, it's to no surprise. These are users who have been around eachother for a substantial period of time and it's not surprising that they have more in common with eachother than the rest of the community.

That is to say, this is no excuse to act in an antisocial 'elitist' manner and such circumstances should be dealt with respectively. Again do not paint all Veterans with the same brush.

[Paradoxxx 15]

I'm going to be completely honest in writing this, something I've felt is quite hard to do on these forums because of the self victimizing mentality and the lack of openess towards criticism.

To start off, what I understand from the new changes to veteran is that all veterans will now be put into either 1. a veteran group 2. into the member pool or 3. removal of all tags.

This doesn't seem to be a problem except for the people who will be in the last case. Or in special occasions in the 2nd case, because they do not want to be part of the internal community. Which brings me to the point that there seems to be a misunderstanding from the veterans group. and yes I'm actually going to generalize all of you since it seems that you veterans do that to yourself aswell, atleast only in a positive light of day which brings up another point later,

The INTENTIONS of this group was to indicate who the loyal people to the community are

People are openly welcome to join the channel if they aren't a complete nuisance, so to say we are self-enclosed is rather idiotic. Obviously certain personalities are going to clash lol. I guess that just so happens to be half the mod team.

Some people in the veterans group, or even the entire veterans group from a "outsiders" point of view, seem to act like they are the sun to which this community spins around, in the posts they make and the way they act. Saying that everyone is welcome except if you dont like them is completely the contradicting and is exactly self enclosed. And if your group seems to not get a long with half the mod team, the people who keep the server spinning and people in check, even myself at times, there is something intrinsically wrong with your group and saying that you are loyal to THIS community is fundamentally wrong. You might be loyal to the sub community you have built upon your years of friendship and hardship together but do not mistake this for loyalty towards this ever changing community.

These changes are being made to create a more open and fair community. Outbreak prides itself on being an honest and transparent place to be. The veteran group changes reflect much needed desire to form a level and fair playing field that does not unfairly privilege equally active individuals in name.

A lot of veterans seem to go firmly against this. But isn't this pure equality? Let's not kid ourself here that regulars get more slack and more anything than normal players. I'm not a member, I'm not very active on the server, but I would like to think that I'm a member of this community. And being that I can honestly say I feel priviliged when on the server. From not getting moved from CT to T when ratio is fucked and I joined later, to occasionally accidentally freekilling, or being harsh. Just because I know people. Everyone always gets priviliged and you know what, you veterans get priviliged a shit fucking but loads in TS3 and on the forums. If you want examples how about you go through Sony his posts, or some of the latest threads of this forum from veterans. Complete and utter shitposting without consequence. The insane ban requests based on absolutely nothing. Joining mix rooms, or game rooms without asking? Fluxy throws a tantrum about it and the admin team hussles to make a post. Chris lord and some other members disturb mafia or come spam music in channels, or just be cunts in general, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING GETS DONE. If you think veterans are not priviliged and will still be priviliged you are saddly mistaken and need a reality check

Adressing Jamie

am even labelled publicly in a Teamspeak channel by the Owner as being 'really aids' even after everything ive done for the community throughout the years - been an admin on and off, decision making, server setup, donating over £50 to name a few of them. Want to know why I've resorted to being reckless recently? I don't agree with half the decisions being made and the way the management of this community has been treating people and given situations. Like fuck am I wanting to be part of that. Saying I need to swallow my pride and apply? Swallow yours.

This is pretty much a prime example of privilige, jamie honestly I think you're a really nice guy and I have nothing against you but you are litterally saying that, because you were a great member in the passed and have helped loads you get to dictate terms and do your thing. Its not because you donated money, or helpped the community you get to shape it after your own desire. Decisions get made and if you are not happy with them you get to voice them and if enough people do changes will be made and they have been in the passed. Being a dickhead doesn't do that at all.

"Unintentionally, veterans were tacitly given some degree of protection whilst they were active on the server or forums".

2 ex vets were removed from the group due to rule breaking. Who's been given protection exactly? Or are you referring to the fact that half of your mods are too scared to do anything if shit goes wrong? Im guessing by making these changes you are hoping to boost their confidence against the big bad wolves that are the veterans. This is simply a way to have a cheap shot at loyal serving members just because you dislike a few of us.

I think a big problem arises if mods are actually scared of you guys, and I for a fact know that some mods are actually scared to take firm action in a lot of cases because of the potential back lash they might face which is really bad from parties, the mods themself, and the people who they are scared of. Isn't boosting mods their confidence to act justly, or according to their own judgement good? Incase they have bad judgement and make countless bad calls they'll be removed, if they make good calls the community is better off. It's a win win scenario, just not for the rule breakers which in this case is very much some of the veterans.

You have bigger problems to deal with in this community, like the quality of your half your moderators. Sure Mintlou likes to have a moan about them, but unlike him, I've seen their modding capabilities on the server. They are lazy, lackluster and just have downright poor judgement. Promoting people because 'there is no one else better atm' is silly. Im not going to be a complete dick and call out who they are, but they exist. As I said, I don't publicly humiliate people.

The quality of half the moderators might not be up to par, I agree It's a problem. But the entire veteran problem is a problem aswell. It doesnt mean just because you are targetted you should deflect on another problem. Thats not how the world works.

Adressing Sony

the influx of socially awkward children that comes with jailbreak (some of which are mods).

I understand what you mean by this but I think you are mistaking socially awkwardness with shyness, partly because of the friendship and bonds you veterans have with each other. Everyone is socially awkward given a situation where they do not fit in. And people you've never met, or people you do not connect with will be socially awkward around you. Are they socially awkward because you dont get along? I think not, I think most if not all of the community can handle themselfs fine in a ts3 channel where they have friends like how you veterans are all friends with each other. Calling them socially awkward is borderline disrespectful even if you didnt mean it that way.

Many of the veterans have been here since the start, they're fairly confident in who they'll like from the get go, plus who they won't.

Can't expect them to like everyone who interacts with them, see "socially awkward children".

They've saw people come in and out of this community while they've stuck around through the hard times and the good.

This is purely my oppinion on "community"and you obviously have a different one, but sticking around for a long time through good and bad doesn't mean the community centers around you, it just means you are still part of the community and yes you might have had your time of being the center of the community but thats not now, it might be later, but acting like you are just estranges you from the actual community. With you I mean people who hav eyour oppinion of community.

Adressing Fluxy

I have always been told that in this community, if I have a problem I should go and talk to an admin, but what do you do when you feel you cant trust the admins to do anything to help you because you feel the some of the admin team is against you. We, as vets, and please do not think im refering to some stupid purple forum tag or whatever, those people know who they are, even if they were never in the group, appear to be treated with the attitude that we are trouble makers, black sheep. Im always being made to feel like some admins dont see the need in vets.

The admin team for me represents, the best of this community, and the leaders of this community. Unseen connor gunstar and whoever else might think I'm a shit kid who complains a lot, but when I have an honest complaint they keep it in mind even if it comes from me. They are friendly but at the same time they arent scared to enforce the rules. If at any case you cant trust the admins beacuse you feel like they are against you, isn't that the moment you should realize you might be doing something wrong? I've have my fair share of complaints and complaining, moaning and whining with mods and admins. But oppinions arent always shared and it's hard to realize, but its not because your oppinions of matters differ that one is wrong and the other is right. It just means the community sees it differently and if you keep doing it that way, it'll be frowned upon.

Well ill tell you what, without that group this community wouldnt even be here. I think some people can't really understand what 3 years of online friendship feels like but we have been through a fucking lot. More owners than you can name, DDoS's, rival communities, drama, everything. Our owner and head admin were there through it all so I dont need to explain to you, so is it really too much to ask that we can have a little identifier for us? Just something we can kind of group round, no one is shoving it in anyone's face. It was that recognition that gave us a sense of pride. New people come in and being viewed as a sort of elder or the community, in a purely passive role, gave me, and I know many others, something.

To be completely honest, this post just screams ENTITLEMENT, like anyone can see that right?

Like I understand that it's naturally to want to feel respected and have influence because of your long relation with this community and how you've built it up. But dude, get over it.

t because we want to have a mature discussion? Almost all new intros and new member apps are made by people 15-17 I would say, that is the bulk of this communities player age group. Almost all of the vet group are over 20, do you really expect for their to be no friction between these two groups?

Let's not bring maturity into this like being 20 makes you mature. Being 30 doesnt even automaticly make you mature. It's a bit lowball to assume because you have a common factor of being 20 that that's the cause of friction? Correlation does not imply causation. And especially not in this case.

You're correct. Half of us being mid twentys we simply find it awkward socialising with children

Cause all 15-17 year olds are children and all children are all socially awkward, and ow yeah all veterans are annoying and everyone generalizes and everyone is a hypocrit.

Adressing Mintlou

I think Mintlou is pretty right in everything he says except

The truth is, owners didn't like the group and they wanted to get rid of it as quickly as possible, because it was causing issues for the mods and members to deal with.

If in a community a group arises and the owners moderators and members were having issues to deal with it, wouldnt you automaticly wanted it gone? Like take a step backwards, if someone tells you in what ever hypothetical situation you have that theres a group within a community that is causing issues fo the mods and members to deal with what would you think?

To end this I'd like to say that being a part of a community shouldn't require you to donate, or have a 20 year relationship with the community. To be part of a community is to acknowledge the community for what it is and to help it forward despite what ever self intrest you have. Inequality, priviledge and above all entitlement does not do that.

tldr this became a way longer post than I Thought i would be

[Sniffles 175]

Veteran master race

Imo they deserve a title and what ever else was mentioned for the fact that they've been in this community through out the years, the good the bad they've seen it all and yet they stayed and helped it recover. Also I understand why the Vets wouldn't want annoying children like myself with them for the reason that we're still immature and going through a time in our life where we are still growing up where as they are mostly mature and have grown up therefore they care not for are memes and other antics but instead want to have fun with the friends they made many years ago.

To conclude I believe the points made by the veterans are stronger then the arguments made by the mod team and other users and without them I might be on a different server right now instead of talking and interacting with people from this community.

That's just the way I see it oh and I think shit poster SonyTwan should be given 40% on donations for making the forums a amazing place to be

[SonyTwan 1,208]

That's just the way I see it oh and I think shit poster SonyTwan should be given 40% on donations for making the forums a amazing place to be

why isn't this guy member yet

[Stiqqy 592]

That's just the way I see it oh and I think shit poster SonyTwan should be given 40% on donations for making the forums a amazing place to be

why isn't this guy member yet

because he left forever, remember?

[Fluxy 1,660]

Veteran master race

Imo they deserve a title and what ever else was mentioned for the fact that they've been in this community through out the years, the good the bad they've seen it all and yet they stayed and helped it recover. Also I understand why the Vets wouldn't want annoying children like myself with them for the reason that we're still immature and going through a time in our life where we are still growing up where as they are mostly mature and have grown up therefore they care not for are memes and other antics but instead want to have fun with the friends they made many years ago.

To conclude I believe the points made by the veterans are stronger then the arguments made by the mod team and other users and without them I might be on a different server right now instead of talking and interacting with people from this community.

That's just the way I see it oh and I think shit poster SonyTwan should be given 40% on donations for making the forums a amazing place to be

Well I'll be damned, Sniffles does have some awareness to him.

[w33zy 1,523]

veterans are all old mature trolls who dont take the community serious anymore, thats why i became member again cause i dont wanna be associated with them. imo im happy that the veterans group is gone. i also hope that moderators have balls to ban some of the veterans cause they really need it. :glad2:

[Skeff 289]

What exactly is the issue here? This is putting the veteran group back to how it was meant to be, a place for long serving members to go to if they became inactive but wanted to either keep in the OB loop or had intentions of coming back. It is essentially permanent membership with less requirements.

Over the past few months this certainly hasn't been the case. Many of the veterans were active within the community and they deserve to be members, if they don't want to be members they should ask to be removed.

As someone who would qualify for the veteran group if I were to go (more) inactive I understand that it's nice to have additional recognition for time spent in the community but that is something we've never done in the past and I don't necessarily feel is needed (although I wouldn't be opposed to it if it were introduced). All qualifying members have done amazing jobs for the community, especially the people who have served as mods and admins but some people really need to get off their high horses and work out if they're a member of this community or not.

After reading as many of the replies in this thread as I could I think the possibility of a long serving member group would be nice but like I mentioned in the last paragraph it is something we've never done in the past and has always been shot down when suggested.

One last thing I've seen mentioned in this thread is mods and unfortunately I don't even know where to begin. It feels like the entire group is messy although when I look at the individual names can see we have many good mods that are all feeling the same pressures past mods have done. That is a discussion for another thread, lets keep this to veterans and loyalty groups.

[mitch 457]

all the veterans are self entitled cancer kids imo

[SonyTwan 1,208]

all the veterans are self entitled cancer kids imo

yeh glad i'm not one too

[VENGA BUS 2,027]

I'm glad not to be associated with such a rancid group of trolls like, for example, Weezy, gaffer, Jamie, fluxy etc

All the non trolls left a long time ago like me Sony and mintlou. I'm glad they were disbanded as they only existed to cause trouble.

Also give rich homie sniffles member.

Also who is paradox and why did he accidentally post his dissertation in here?

[Jamie 2,319]

Adressing Jamie

am even labelled publicly in a Teamspeak channel by the Owner as being 'really aids' even after everything ive done for the community throughout the years - been an admin on and off, decision making, server setup, donating over £50 to name a few of them. Want to know why I've resorted to being reckless recently? I don't agree with half the decisions being made and the way the management of this community has been treating people and given situations. Like fuck am I wanting to be part of that. Saying I need to swallow my pride and apply? Swallow yours.

This is pretty much a prime example of privilige, jamie honestly I think you're a really nice guy and I have nothing against you but you are litterally saying that, because you were a great member in the passed and have helped loads you get to dictate terms and do your thing. Its not because you donated money, or helpped the community you get to shape it after your own desire. Decisions get made and if you are not happy with them you get to voice them and if enough people do changes will be made and they have been in the passed. Being a dickhead doesn't do that at all.

"Unintentionally, veterans were tacitly given some degree of protection whilst they were active on the server or forums".

2 ex vets were removed from the group due to rule breaking. Who's been given protection exactly? Or are you referring to the fact that half of your mods are too scared to do anything if shit goes wrong? Im guessing by making these changes you are hoping to boost their confidence against the big bad wolves that are the veterans. This is simply a way to have a cheap shot at loyal serving members just because you dislike a few of us.

I think a big problem arises if mods are actually scared of you guys, and I for a fact know that some mods are actually scared to take firm action in a lot of cases because of the potential back lash they might face which is really bad from parties, the mods themself, and the people who they are scared of. Isn't boosting mods their confidence to act justly, or according to their own judgement good? Incase they have bad judgement and make countless bad calls they'll be removed, if they make good calls the community is better off. It's a win win scenario, just not for the rule breakers which in this case is very much some of the veterans.

You have bigger problems to deal with in this community, like the quality of your half your moderators. Sure Mintlou likes to have a moan about them, but unlike him, I've seen their modding capabilities on the server. They are lazy, lackluster and just have downright poor judgement. Promoting people because 'there is no one else better atm' is silly. Im not going to be a complete dick and call out who they are, but they exist. As I said, I don't publicly humiliate people.

The quality of half the moderators might not be up to par, I agree It's a problem. But the entire veteran problem is a problem aswell. It doesnt mean just because you are targetted you should deflect on another problem. Thats not how the world works.