Admin Complaint: Eagle

[W!PeOuT 0]

I really was hoping the first post I ever made on this community forum wasn't an admin complaint/ban request but I don't think you should be allowed to do this.

Admin Name: Eagle

SteamID: STEAM_0:0:13892393

What did he do: Ok so it was the second round into a map (the first being declared a freeday by some CT) and none of the CTs wanted to give orders that round. My reason was because the last time I gave commands I was insulted in chat by a few people for using the unfreeze rule (including another admin incedentaly) but I'm not going into that.

It ended up going on for a while and the cells were opened at some point by some other CT. At this point there were people rebelling and going into the armoury so I went over and killed them and got to a distance so I could AWP them safely. Then Eagle just says "Do it again" in chat and without warning slays all the remaining CTs including myself thus ending the round.

I then said to him in chat that he should have used /rr to restart the round. If he dosen't have that command then even /respawn @all would have been better but there we go.

We then get into an argument over chat (some of which was on mic, I'll try to cover these parts). I have the whole thing in the console screenshots provided and not once did I threaten him, insult him personnaly or breach any of the rules of the server according to the list on these forums (which I read before I started playing earlier on).

Anyone this carries on for a while but the back and off remains fairly friendly and it was then he gagged me. I then, taking care not to talk over the commander, reminded him I had a mic and asked him why he did it over mic and then he told me it was "spam".

I would like to take this moment in the story to bring you the dictionary definition of spam:

Send the same message indiscriminately to (large numbers of recipients) on the Internet

or

Irrelevant or inappropriate messages sent on the Internet to a large number of recipients

Something which I'm not doing. I can't see how it was irrelevant or inappropriate to message him about what I considered a bad mistake as an admin. So then he threatens to mute me and I suggested to him that he ungag me so we could talk this over in chat so as not to disrupt the gameplay. Even at this point I have said nothing abusive to him at all.

Then he ungags me and after a short restarting of the debate he threatens to ban me for 5 mins, again no reason given and no reason I can find in the rules list and then told me to take it to the forums which is exactly what I'm doing.

You're probably wondering what gives me the right to question this guy. I would argue I wouldn't need admin credentials to bestow upon him a basic knowledge of SM admin commands and when to use them but in case you aren't of that viewpoint: I used to administrate the popular FP JB/PB server. Some of you may remember it in fact (I know as soon as I dropped the name people said they remembered it). I'm still a B rank administrator on the AG JB server which is the successor to the FP server but I don't really play CSS that much anymore as I'm doing a physics degree.

I also have administrated 11 other servers, 5 forums (1 of them unrelated to CSS), co-founded 2 communities over my career spanning 3-4 years as well as configure, setup, run and populate 3 other servers, 2 of which were successful. Including both incarnations of AuR surf server (counted as one) as I am a co-founder twice over both before and after the reboot of the community (which I started). Some of you in AuR may know me as I used to be quite active on the surf servers. I'm not perfect but I certainly don't abuse my power in this manner.

He had no good reason nor any right as an admin to use his powers in the way he did and whilst no serious abuse occured, if you don't jump on this now then one day it could end up in an unfair ban. I've seen admins turn bad before and it always starts with minor things this.

I don't want him demoted, I don't want him kicked from the community or banned. I just want an apology and a promise that something will be done to monitor the admins on your server a bit more carefully. Whether you agree with my opinions on whether he should have slayed the CTs or not you cannot deny he was in the wrong when gagging me or threatening me with furthur action because I was breaching absolutely no rules.

Evidence:

http://postimage.org/image/gubcs2z7f/

http://postimage.org/image/6cvwxj9iv/

http://postimage.org/image/6bwg6l76v/

This server has potential but it won't be any good to play on if this kind of thing happens often.

Thank you for reading

W!PeOuT

[Jamie]

"I was insulted in chat by a few people for using the unfreeze rule (including another admin incedentaly) but I'm not going into that."

Insulted in what way? If an admin seriously insults you then your best bet is to report it to McLovin or Kriss directly. However I was on at this time and I only recall a few people moaning about it but nothing too major.

"I then said to him in chat that he should have used /rr to restart the round. If he dosen't have that command then even /respawn @all would have been better but there we go."

Slaying all is not a problem at all to use on the server, it's what we tend to use to restart the round, although a warning should generally be given a few seconds beforehand. I also recall this getting on to the topic about "Score" however im not sure who brought it up, this isn't really important on a PB server.

Things were getting fairly heated for no reason what so ever, it was a child's argument from my point of view. Warnings however were given to you to drop it, Eagle was also advised to cool it down. This could have easily been snipped in the bud in the first place by explaining why everyone was slain in a calm fashioned manner without all the heat building up.

I didn't pick up everything that happened as I was trying to command at this time.

[Eagle (inactive)]

Ok here we go the proper place like i asked.

1. The round was declared a freeday and most of the cts decided to freekill. so i thought whats the best solution to stop people spamming freekill and make everyone happy restart the round so i slayed the whole 3 ct's that were alive.

2. you just admitted to armoury camping good job there that is against the rules of the server.

3. By "Do it again" i ment restart the round cause multiple people had been freekilled.

4. my mistake not spam just being arrogant and acting like a self pro claimed god i gagged you to tell you to take it to the forums which somehow you managed to leave out in those screen shots.

5. I like the way you managed to leave out the parts were i told you multiple times to be quiet and take it to the forums and complain there if you had problems but nope you carried to poor your hate out in chat so i decided to gag you for 5 seconds to get my point across that you shouldn't be complaining on the server you should complain on the forums. (you can even ask ben that i told him multiple times to take it to the forums and he ignored me everytime untill i said i will ban you for 5 minutes if you do not stop which he then proceded to leave the server and spend 2 hours making this trash).

6. you say you were not breaking any rules but even bennevis told you to stop like 3 times he also told me to stop which i did and then proceded to tell you to take it to the forums and complain if you want. when ben said to stop you can see in the second screen shot at the bottom that i tried to stop you but then you proceeded to be an ass.

( I also have administrated 11 other servers, 5 forums (1 of them unrelated to CSS), co-founded 2 communities over my career spanning 3-4 years as well as configure, setup, run and populate 3 other servers, 2 of which were successful. Including both incarnations of AuR surf server (counted as one) as I am a co-founder twice over both before and after the reboot of the community (which I started). Some of you in AuR may know me as I used to be quite active on the surf servers. I'm not perfect but I certainly don't abuse my power in this manner. ) This is all just not even necessary i have also done everything you have basically done so if its experience you think you have you don't I'd gather we are equal on that part.

7. I did not abuse my powers in anyway. simple. (i may have raged a bit but thats cause you to be fair were being a arrogant person.)

i am actually disgusted how you left out or edited the screenshots of me telling you multiple times to take this to the forums before gagging you and before telling you i would ban you for 5 minutes this to me if i had it my way i would have you permbanned.

im pretty sure twist was here at same time to back some of what i said up.

[McLovin]

Hello W!PeOuT,

I am McLovin one of the Owners of Outbreak. Im almost 21 and I am a friendly guy "I THINK". Being an expert in more then 1 of several IT degrees in The Netherlands. I also got choosen on my academy for an Database course for half a year. So if its about intelligence I guess im alright? Dunno.

As for my Counter-Strike:Source expierence:

I played this game since 4/5 years back and began PB around 4 years back. I joined a community called uk:N. Wich on the time was the best UK Prison Break community. After the community died due to forgotten payments for the server. A new Community emerged called VooDoo. I runned the first, second and third generation of this community called VooDoo. Aswell as a community called Flower Power. I had admin in Blaze a community in what VooDoo merged into. I still have admin in AuR. And am current leader of Outbreak. So as for my Prison Break Admin Expierence you could say im a veteran.

"Just wanted to point out that I know what im talking about."

So here comes my responce to this Admin Complaint:

After reading all this text, I could say that indeed this argument whent from the size of a fly towards an elephant.

The reason why Eagle slayed the CT's is to get the round over with.

As for the Unfreeze rule, it is kind of banned on our server. (I know its not in our rules.) But when an admin tells you not to use it. It also states in the rules to listen to our admins at all times.

!respawn @all DOES NOT WORK on PB.

Simple stated, its better to just slay the CT's then to respawn all.

Other then that, if you respawn everyone again then the FREEDAY round would have taken even more time.

Summary:

Eagle:

Next time give a warning before slaying. Or just slay the freekillers.

W!PeOuT:

Next time instead of starting an argument on the server go straight to the forum.

Since this could have been solved in 2min.

ps. Im sorry for any bad spelling. Im dyslectic aswell that English is not my native language.

[W!PeOuT]

Ok firstly to address Twist:

Insulted in what way? If an admin seriously insults you then your best bet is to report it to McLovin or Kriss directly. However I was on at this time and I only recall a few people moaning about it but nothing too major.

Dick, dickhead, twat etc are insults. I didn't take a screenshot because I didn't care but later on Bennevis told me that one of them was an admin which I found pretty stunning to be honest. I can safely say I've never ever used those kinds of words against anyone on the server whilst administrating it.

Slaying all is not a problem at all to use on the server, it's what we tend to use to restart the round, although a warning should generally be given a few seconds beforehand. I also recall this getting on to the topic about "Score" however im not sure who brought it up, this isn't really important on a PB server.

It's not the best way of restarting a round. There is a specific command to restart the round and failing that there's the /respawn @all command. It's a non-issue whether you agree with me about the scoring being important on PB servers or not the important point is that he used his gag to silence me when I actually had not broken any rules at all.

Things were getting fairly heated for no reason what so ever, it was a child's argument from my point of view. Warnings however were given to you to drop it, Eagle was also advised to cool it down. This could have easily been snipped in the bud in the first place by explaining why everyone was slain in a calm fashioned manner without all the heat building up.

Sorry but why should I drop it? It started as a suggestion that he use /rr instead but it was quickly escalated beyond that when admin powers became involved. My conduct is not questionable under the rules outlined on the forum unless you count the "listen to admins" rule which is a complete cop-out rule that is abused to hell to assert your power over them. I never enforce it myself because it's pratically a non-rule. Besides I don't call saying "Fuck it, Do it again" a calm way of restarting the round. It's more like a "I'm fed up of this so I'm just going to slay all the CTs" kind of response.

Now to address Eagle:

1. The round was declared a freeday and most of the cts decided to freekill. so i thought whats the best solution to stop people spamming freekill and make everyone happy restart the round so i slayed the whole 3 ct's that were alive.

Did I decide to freekill? No. In fact I saw one and only one freekill at the time and I was watching pretty closely because I was looking for rebels and I was on high ground anyway. I agree the whole round went to hell pretty quickly but you don't just slay the entire CT team because one maybe 2 of us actually freekilled and broke rules.

2. you just admitted to armoury camping good job there that is against the rules of the server.

Actually no. What I said was there was someone in the armoury so I went and dual elite killed them through the upstairs window. I then went over to the over side of the map looking for rebels and when I turned around there were some more people in armoury so I got my AWP out and aimed at one but you slayed me before I even pulled the trigger. Not once was I facing the armoury for more than 5-10 seconds. That's not camping, it's killing rebels in the armoury who are probably keen on shooting me.

3. By "Do it again" i ment restart the round cause multiple people had been freekilled.

And the fuck it part? What about me? I didn't freekill, nor did I armoury camp. You slayed me nonetheless and that is not the way to deal with a situation like that.

4. my mistake not spam just being arrogant and acting like a self pro claimed god i gagged you to tell you to take it to the forums which somehow you managed to leave out in those screen shots.

Why don't you read the console logs again? I said to you that you shouldn't slay every CT but instead use /rr. Where in that sentence did I claim to be a god? In fact it was you who brought up the whole admin credential issue because you asked me how long I'd been administrating PB servers and that was the first mention of anything along those lines. Up until then it was just us fueding over a suggestion which you took rather badly.

5. I like the way you managed to leave out the parts were i told you multiple times to be quiet and take it to the forums and complain there if you had problems but nope you carried to poor your hate out in chat so i decided to gag you for 5 seconds to get my point across that you shouldn't be complaining on the server you should complain on the forums. (you can even ask ben that i told him multiple times to take it to the forums and he ignored me everytime untill i said i will ban you for 5 minutes if you do not stop which he then proceded to leave the server and spend 2 hours making this trash).

How on earth do you figure that I missed out parts? I highlighted every single top line on each page which you can see on the preceding page so how did I edit it exactly? The entire frame of the console log around it is still intact. Plus 2 hours to write that? Really? No it didn't take me that long and besides it dosen't bother me how long it will take me. There was no hate in that chat log at all. Please point to the part where I hated on you. The use of gag even to get my attention is a bad argument because you had my full attention already and you didn't even mention posting on the forums before you gagged me. I might have even left it at that but no you had to use your powers to gag me.

6. you say you were not breaking any rules but even bennevis told you to stop like 3 times he also told me to stop which i did and then proceded to tell you to take it to the forums and complain if you want. when ben said to stop you can see in the second screen shot at the bottom that i tried to stop you but then you proceeded to be an ass.

Asserting that we are both wrong/right is going to cause a response isn't it? That's not a good way of ending the discussion and besides I don't want an end to the discussion I want my issues to be addressed. What you did was wrong and it comes under admin abuse no matter how you spin it.

This is all just not even necessary i have also done everything you have basically done so if its experience you think you have you don't I'd gather we are equal on that part.

Well since it was you who brought up the issue of my experience of handling PB servers I figured it would be an important subject to you. I even said before I launched into it that I reckoned you didn't need any previous experience to tell people they're doing it wrong. All I need is a knowledge of SM commands which most people (that I know at least) have this knowledge.

I did not abuse my powers in anyway. simple. (i may have raged a bit but thats cause you to be fair were being a arrogant person.)

Ok, then you'll be able to tell me which rule in the rule list you gagged me under then.

i am actually disgusted how you left out or edited the screenshots of me telling you multiple times to take this to the forums before gagging you and before telling you i would ban you for 5 minutes this to me if i had it my way i would have you permbanned.

I haven't left anything out. Look at the top and bottom of each screenshot and you can even see the preceeding line (it's highlighted in fact). The border around the console text is unbroken and I highlighted every single exchange between me and you. There is no tampering of that screenshot you just carried away and gagged me without thinking or warning me.

I also find the underlined bit very important. I had admins who said they wanted to perm ban people for stupid things like this that aren't even covered by rules but they always told me they never actually would. Then a few days/weeks later I get told by somebody that they just got permbanned with the reason "jerk" or "asshole" or whatever petty insult they threw in the reason section. One day you'll jump the gun entirely and you'll perm ban someone you may dislike but who actually does not deserve a perm ban. Then you won't be able to defend yourself at all.

I am McLovin one of the Owners of Outbreak. Im almost 21 and I am a friendly guy "I THINK". Being an expert in more then 1 of several IT degrees in The Netherlands. I also got choosen on my academy for an Database course for half a year. So if its about intelligence I guess im alright? Dunno.

As for my Counter-Strike:Source expierence:

I played this game since 4/5 years back and began PB around 4 years back. I joined a community called uk:N. Wich on the time was the best UK Prison Break community. After the community died due to forgotten payments for the server. A new Community emerged called VooDoo. I runned the first, second and third generation of this community called VooDoo. Aswell as a community called Flower Power. I had admin in Blaze a community in what VooDoo merged into. I still have admin in AuR. And am current leader of Outbreak. So as for my Prison Break Admin Expierence you could say im a veteran.

"Just wanted to point out that I know what im talking about."

It's absolutly nothing to do with that. The console logs show him calling my experience into question. I even said that I didn't think anybody needed some kind of credential to make a suggestion to an admin they think has done something wrong. It's nothing to do with intelligence, frankly I don't care how intelligent you, Eagle or any of your members are, intelligent people abuse admin as well. Frankly if he calls my experience into question once then what's to stop him calling me out on it again. I made it pretty clear that this part didn't matter at all but that I realise some people would be reading this thinking "who the hell is this guy?"

The reason why Eagle slayed the CT's is to get the round over with.

There are plently of other ways of doing that and most of them are better.

As for the Unfreeze rule, it is kind of banned on our server. (I know its not in our rules.) But when an admin tells you not to use it. It also states in the rules to listen to our admins at all times.

Yes, it's not in your rules so it's not banned. You might want to make it a bit more explicit for people like me who have never played your server before. Not to mention that is exactly not what someone else said to me. I asked over mic (twist was there but this was much earlier in the day) and I was told that whilst it was "frowned upon" it was not banned and so I asked could I give it a try anyway to which I was told yes. You need to tell your admins and regulars that calling me a dick in chat is not a way of telling me that the unfreeze rule is banned or even discouraged.

!respawn @all DOES NOT WORK on PB.

Actually it does. You know how I know that? Because I used it all the time to reset rounds on the FP/AG PB servers without any issues. Even if it didn't work on your server, I saw Kriss use the !respawn @t command earlier on in the day and it worked fine. So what's the issue with typing "!respawn @t" and "!respawn @ct".

Other then that, if you respawn everyone again then the FREEDAY round would have taken even more time.

Huh? The freeday round was over... all it would have done was reset the round so that Twist could have given commands again. It would be like a new round started and the freeday would be cancelled much in the same way the commander's orders are cancelled by LR when only 2 terrorists survive.

Next time instead of starting an argument on the server go straight to the forum.

I was not even aware you had a forum. I had to google you to find you.

ps. Im sorry for any bad spelling. Im dyslectic aswell that English is not my native language.

It's not an issue for me. I have 2 dyslexic friends, a dyslexic cousin and loads of foreign friends who are all constantly asking me and everyone around them how to spell words. Dosen't bother me in the slightest as long as I can understand what you're saying.

I still feel like I should be given an apology. What was done to me was completly unfair.

[Eagle (inactive)]

I will never apologise for any of the admin powers i used on you or on anyone else.

I will however be a man a man a say sorry if it seemed if i was raging at you in game that is just the way i talk and if i offended you in anyway in game.

One major point THIS IS NOT AG/FP i can use !respawn @t but if i cant out of half of the 18 ts who has been freekilled and who has not i might aswell just slay the cts its simpler its easier and we can get back to doing fun ct commands instead of a freeday which is just a glorified way of cts making up excuses to kill people.

I do not care if you were the only one not to freekill the rest of the cts were killing all of the ts so fast i had no choice but to slay all the ct's and i had never stated that you were freekilling at all. plus who are you to come into the server and start to judge everything a admin does says.

also all i mentioned experience wise in game was that i have been playing pb for aleast 3-4 years the same as you and i stated that you must know the idea of pb is to have fun not get kills and if you think getting kills is important to pb you are in the wrong game mode, we want to have fun we do not care about how you have 15-2 kills against defenceless t's. (Aiming to get kills in PB is the wrong mindset for any ct and commander this leads to you doing shitty games to get kills and will not improve you being a better commander take fin he is the perfect commander in my opinion learn from him if you need to know how to command and not be blood thirsty).

( found out that i have 4 years experience here is the source of my intensive knowledge of pb http://steamcommunity.com/groups/miajailbreak)

hmm ok 5 min ban means im obviously going to start perma banning people now ofc i see the logic, i have not even banned anyone on the server yet. and i said "Do it again" cause i was using what you said in your statement but yes i did say FUCK IT DO IT AGAIN cause the round was a total mess.

as for not knowing the forum existed that is a pitiful excuse it is said in chat every minute and the MOTD when you Join the server is the forum.

There is a suggestion section on this forum so go ahead and use it. NOT ONE other person complained about me slaying the cts to restart the round. /rr does not exist on this server and even if it does i do not have permission to use it the only people who can do that are mclovin and kriss.

Don't act high and mighty with me i did not abuse you in anyway i requested you to complain on the forums multiple times in chat and you ignored me everytime untill you left the server to actually do what i said to do.

you want a reason for why i gagged you Ignoring admins (not just me but ben aswell) also it was so that i could get my point across clear enough so you would understand to stop arguing and if you wanted to argue more go to the forums to report it. you want a reason for why i would have banned you if you persisted in game Ignoring admins not just me but twist and ben. (I did not gag you cause i did not agree with you even though i did not obviously i gagged you for the above)

If you do not like people swearing you are on the wrong server sorry. I speak the way I want to speak I won't change for you or anyone else. this is not a game meant for children anyway if you are not OK with swearing that is not my problem.

i said you were acting like a self proclaimed god i never said you called your self one maybe you should take a read at what i write.

I would like to state that when ben and twist told me enough was enough i accpeted that and tried to end the arguement but you carried on which led you being gagged and threatened to be banned aswell as advising you to go to the forums to complain if you wanted to.

you are the only person in my history of playing css who has decided to make something so small and insignificant so big. Congratulations.

in future if you have a suggestion keep it to yourself or post it on the forums.

As for rules we are constantly updating them and don't worry we will make sure to ban the Unfreeze rule not because of you but because it is not the direction we want the server to move in.

Please refrain from making any further comments.

The sad thing was I liked you up until this incident.

Thank You for complaining, let this be the end of the childish affair once and for all cause that all this was a bunch of toddlers arguing over if they should use the triangle brick in the circle whole or the square one.

[Eagle (inactive)]

Please Lock this topic when you can Mclovin or Kriss because i know he will just continue to persist this if it is not.

[Kriss]

Alright ladies and gentlemen, I'm gone lock this topic before it comes out of hand.

As for W!PeOuT we are a community of friends, We do have rules but us having fun is more important.

I rather not have a problem with this if you still do please talk to Mclovin or me.

[McLovin]

W!PeOuT,

The whole reason why I told something about myself was because your whole post about yourself.

"I made it pretty clear that this part didn't matter at all but that I realise some people would be reading this thinking "who the hell is this guy?"

Then why make a 10 line post about yourself? Since I had the same feeling when reading your post.

We have just started this community and bugs need to be found. Either in the rules or the way to admin the server.

Although from what I can see is that this whent from im gonna make an admin complain into an lets discuss every sentence the Outbreak Admins have typed.

This is not worth my time nor my attention although I do put time and attention in this since I want to make this an example.

For all those who make an admin complain about such a trivial manner and then questioning the success of the community due to this. "This server has potential but it won't be any good to play on if this kind of thing happens often." Will barely make a good impression.

You also question one of our rules, The rule Listen to our admins at all times. It is very simple to understand and to use rule. If an admin tells you to stop nagging then stop. Do not continue a worthless argument on the server. Go to our forum, wich actually comes up green in our chat every 3min.

In the end I can only say this.

This community is not FP nor AG. Its Outbreak we have our own rules and admin rules.

Wich in my eyes has not been crossed by our Admin.

Thus he has no reason to appologise other then that he already did about the offending part.

The end.