What do YOU think about the new Counter-Strike active duty map pool?

[M1nt-l0u 1,235]

Quote

[CSGO]
– Replaced Dust II with Inferno in the Active Duty Group.
– Created a separate Dust II map group for Casual and Deathmatch game modes.
– Separated Reserves Group into Reserves Group and Hostage Group.

[MISC]
– By default, players can now apply graffiti quickly by pressing and releasing the graffiti menu key. This can be disabled from the graffiti menu via checkbox. To alleviate any initial confusion from this change, we added one extra charge to all unsealed graffiti.
– Optimized water materials used in Inferno, Nuke and Aztec maps.
– Added convars mp_teamscore_max, mp_teamscore_1, mp_teamscore_2 to display best of N maps series in the spectator UI.

[MAPS]
– Dust2
— Fixed various spots where C4 could get stuck

– Cobblestone
— Made cubby near bottom of platform stairs in Bombsite B deeper
— Smoothed out movement around B ramp and dropdown room
— Fixed various spots where C4 could get stuck (Thanks Residents_evil!)
— Fixed some surfaces playing the wrong footstep sounds

– Overpass
— Fixed various spots where C4 could get stuck (Thanks kame942!)
— Ground in CT spawn now displays decals correctly
— Fixed some surfaces playing the wrong footstep sounds

– Train
— Fixed various spots where C4 could get stuck

 

From http://blog.counter-strike.net/index.php/2017/02/17867/

I think that this is the most intersting map pool yet. All of the rare and niche maps are active duty, forcing players to get good or get out. I think that by adding these maps it will shake things up not just in the next major, but normal competitive MM as well. The ranks might shift a bit? I wonder what they'll do to Dust2?

[Blyss 975]

d2 in cs go is only good for dm and that's exactly how ppl play it in mm. don't get me wrong i'm not salty since i have an insane winrate on it but i always hated the map since i first touched this game

pros saved it by pulling off some interesting strats but those are never applied in the non pro scene

so ye i agree with it being taken off the active map pool, should have been removed ages ago

newferno isn't much better. everything is wayyyy too open but it's still better than the current d2. hope they remake d2 to something similar to 1.6

the cbble change seems interesting, i like it but i'll have to see how it works out in-game

Edited February 4, 2017 by Blyss

[Fluxy 1,660]

D2 is absolute shit, I'm just glad we finally have an excuse to leave it out of straw polls and MM. 

Imo valve will do a good rework because they are getting better at it, the rework of nuke was flashy, cluttered and imperfect, they went with form over function, when it came to inferno there was a big improvement, it was clear to me they wanted to keep the personality and play of the map by not making huge changes and slapping screen garbage everywhere. Say what you want about new inf but it has some of the best visibility out of any map and was clearly designed with a much clearer vision of the end product that nuke. Not saying it's perfect, I know banana is still pretty busted and there's issues here and there but over all I think inferno is a good map, I enjoy playing it and I'm glad it's back in the pool. Looking forward to seeing it an LANs and tournaments, as many would agree old inf always provided the most exciting and diverse games. 

Also, I know I will miss dust 2 eventually if I don't play it for a long time, so I am also looking forward to seeing what they are gonna do with it! 

On a side note, cbble needs wwwwway more than that to fix it. I always feel it's the most boring and uninspiring map in the pool. I enjoy playing counter strike global offensive, not counter strike B offensive. But that's all cbble is, getting smashed over and over again on b till you finally have to start over commiting to it and then they just go a. 

"URGH BUT FLUX USE UR NADES HUR DUR" xD shut up honestly, any map that legit has a bombsite that the t side can almost beat the cts too if they rush fast enough is bad design, it encourages the thinking of just going b, because maybe this round, you will just be slightly faster than the cts and can you fuck them as they are putting their nades down, still got them in their hand or getting into position. Drop is notoriously hard to hold without coordinated people who know what they are doing and it just puts a huge amount of pressure on any ct side. I don't like it at all and I would love to see some major changes. 

So yeah. 

 

Tldr: d2 is shit, bb good riddance, hope valve do a good job in rework, inferno back in the map pool = good, intrested to see pros play events on it, cbble needs fixing pls gaben 

[w33zy 1,523]

There will be 1 major without dust2 i guess, and you still can play dust2 in MM so wont change alot, maybe more people playing inferno. 

[Lewis 1,276]

-D2 was completely fine, people just don't know how to play it.

-OB has never ever understood CT side dust2 set ups.

-You can't call d2 a DM map and not call cobble one. Rushing B+drop on cobble is much easier than rushing B and mid on d2.

-Most popular map in MM

-Everyone saying d2 is shit and it needs rework, what do you want done to it exactly? No one's really saying anything specific. The fact that it was the most balanced map in the game in 2016 LAN shows it clearly isn't a side problem.

-It's very easy to shut down DM players on d2. Don't play close to mid doors and don't push short. 

 

Standard = 

Round Start: 2b, 1 mid, 2 long

Mid round after control: 1B, 1 mid2b/window, 1CT, 1A, 1LONG

 

IMO cobble needed to go. Most pros don't like it (even though its played). As i've said, d2 pretty boring to watch, so don't care it's gone from active duty that much. But u pussies need to start manning up instead of hiding behind ur trains. Inf stayed in gathers, so d2 can too - see u on the battlefield https://popflash.site/match/76214

 

Also - Ppl also crying it's an aim map. A site is literally one of the few sites in the entire game where you can get a guaranteed plant with the correct smokes+flashes.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Lewis

[w33zy 1,523]

From a spectator view dust2 is kinda boring lewis, wich i think is a big factor why its removed from the map pool. Im also happy that inferno is back in the active duty, we are gonna see pro's playing that match and maybe with some input from pro players we can see some changes on inferno to make it better.

Dust2 is gonna get a visual update and i hope they remove dust2 long doors and make it like 1.6.

 

Also pro inferno matches was always a pleasure to watch, remember fnatic against nip.

[Lewis 1,276]

ye i said d2 boring to watch

fun to play tho

 

inf is good to watch ye, one of my fav maps, cobble dull as fuck tho

Edited February 4, 2017 by Lewis

[Blyss 975]

16 minutes ago, w33zy said:

From a spectator view dust2 is kinda boring lewis, wich i think is a big factor why its removed from the map pool. Im also happy that inferno is back in the active duty, we are gonna see pro's playing that match and maybe with some input from pro players we can see some changes on inferno to make it better.

Dust2 is gonna get a visual update and i hope they remove dust2 long doors and make it like 1.6.

 

Also pro inferno matches was always a pleasure to watch, remember fnatic against nip.

i would love if they just copied 1.6s dust 2 but with go's graphics

the only thing that i like in the new d2 compared to 1.6 is window on b, actually made it viable for retakes

Edited February 4, 2017 by Blyss

[Storm 84]

Not having too much idea of CS I'd say it's nice they change inferno for dust2, I really like inferno and since its rework, even more, maybe now that dust2 isn't in active they'll rework it too? Would be interesting at least!

Remember, I don't have too much idea of CS I'm saying what I think

[Danny 1,225]

Everyone complaining about Cobblestone even though it was the most played map in the Winter Tournament thingy Lmao. Typical OB. \________/

Inferno wasn't even a rework, all it did was a removal job. All it did was make rush B with a tec-9 slightly more viable.

Nuke was a good rework cause it fixed a lot of problems with the map, rotation times, outside and inner CT control etc.

I'm also dumbfounded about how many people have/still do complain about Train, literally nothing wrong with it at all yet there's some sort of hatred for it.

Overpass is a fine map, no outlying problems with the map as of now. Worked out pretty well for a brand new map after a year of so. Very Methodical map.

Mirage and cache are very similar maps. Same basic principles on both. A retakes, Mid Control is life, medium/long ct rotates from each site, B rush Cyka.

Dust 2's CT mid is a bit of a joke tho. One CT having to use utility, usually a smoke/HE, to just stop a T getting info in the first 5 seconds of the map is bs. Also the possibility of being killed or being tagged low in the first 5 seconds is also a joke. Just GO things. They really need to fix that imo. Metal doors isn't good enough tbh, still getting tagged for like 50/60. Make suicide roof a lot smaller and maybe T's spawn a little further back then it's fine. Lets make D2 mid competitive again.

[Joji 235]

[*] dust 11

[Lewis 1,276]

35 minutes ago, DannyS said:

1) Everyone complaining about Cobblestone even though it was the most played map in the Winter Tournament thingy Lmao. Typical OB. \________/

2) I'm also dumbfounded about how many people have/still do complain about Train, literally nothing wrong with it at all yet there's some sort of hatred for it.

3) Dust 2's CT mid is a bit of a joke tho. One CT having to use utility, usually a smoke/HE, to just stop a T getting info in the first 5 seconds of the map is bs. Also the possibility of being killed or being tagged low in the first 5 seconds is also a joke. Just GO things. They really need to fix that imo. Metal doors isn't good enough tbh, still getting tagged for like 50/60. Make suicide roof a lot smaller and maybe T's spawn a little further back then it's fine. Lets make D2 mid competitive again.

1) You can still play a map even if you think it's bad. Pros play it but have outlined how they wish it went. 

2) Regarding train (from an OB community aspect)

-It's a map where the people who play it all the time, know all the rotations, correct gamesense, nades, smokes etc can excel. Just a very small bunch of people in OB who bother playing it and will stomp everyone else when it wouldn't happen on other maps regularly. It's unlike d2, mirage, inf - where everyone knows how to play it and can find frags easily - that's what people look for in a gather.

You can say, well you should learn to play it, but frankly it's just a shit map for our level of CS:

-Retaking bombsite A in, say, a 3v3 is virtually impossible. There's what? Like 6 trains you can hide behind? Hide in heaven, hide in popdog, hide IV, hide connector. Unless the CTs have kept like 12 nades between them and guess all the correct angles flawlessly, or the ts peek, you're not going to win. 

-If people have balls and rush out A it's aids to hold without any nades if you're on a low buy. As we saw b2b rounds at 14-14 final map Astralis vs Virtus pro. Fucking aids.

-Trying to entry frag with an AWP out of B upper or A main is ridiculously hard with all the angles a CT could be holding

-T's regularly get to A main before a CT can rush to defend popdog - which leaves long range the only solution, and when you play a team who know all the smoke grenades to lock off a bombsite it's boring as fuck

 

Don't get me wrong, it's probably a fun map for pro's to play. But you need to think about why people in a prison break community wouldn't enjoy a map like that. As I said, 70% of individual success is aim - frankly most of us just want to play on your mirages, your caches etc, and not guess which of the 25 trains brand0n or extinct is hiding behind.

 

3) Using 1/20 grenades available to cross middle and secure B site with full health isn't really a joke imo. I get tagged maybe 1/50 if i throw a smoke/HE on the door, just wait for the chance shot and then cross if you're that scared of getting hit.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Lewis

[JamesG 70]

Hate D2 but the new Inferno seems good so excited to see how the pros do on it

[Extinct ツ 570]

55 minutes ago, Lewis said:

2) Regarding train (from an OB community aspect)

-It's a map where the people who play it all the time, know all the rotations, correct gamesense, nades, smokes etc can excel. Just a very small bunch of people in OB who bother playing it and will stomp everyone else when it wouldn't happen on other maps regularly. It's unlike d2, mirage, inf - where everyone knows how to play it and can find frags easily - that's what people look for in a gather.

You can say that with any map if any1 knows all the correct nades roatations and gamesense etc etc will excel.And the group of people that "play it all the time" play it like any other map,it just that you dont bother learning the play style for the map and the only reason everyone is good at d2,mirage and inferno is because its just so simple and easy to play like holding simple angles while in train its hard to clear the angles as it is to hold them.
 

55 minutes ago, Lewis said:

You can say, well you should learn to play it, but frankly it's just a shit map for our level of CS:

learn the map: didnt know you thought your level of cs is that bad to not be able to learn a map thats been in the game for so long.
 

55 minutes ago, Lewis said:

-Retaking bombsite A in, say, a 3v3 is virtually impossible. There's what? Like 6 trains you can hide behind? Hide in heaven, hide in popdog, hide IV, hide connector. Unless the CTs have kept like 12 nades between them and guess all the correct angles flawlessly, or the ts peek, you're not going to win. 

You can say that with any map, e.g mirage,lets say ts plant for connector,the bomb is exposed to short,mid,palace,ramp,jungle.Then the 3 ts can be hiding anywhere like firebox,ct,deep palace and if you have no nades on ct then how the fuck am i meant to win this 3v3 unless the ts peak me and its the exact same in train,lets say the ts plant for pop,the bomb is exposed to pop,e box,brown train and heaven, and the ts can be hiding olof,hell,deep a main, pop, heaven.If we got no nades were fucked.But also depends on how to retake the site and where you are coming from and this will make it easier,so back to mirage,1 ct is coming from kitchen going jungle,1 ct is going b short and heading towards connector and 1 ct is already at CT and has it cleared,this will shorten down where the ts are,now on train we say we have 1 ct pushed b and is going pop,1 ct is back A2 and is clearing ivy and 1 ct is going connector.It will allways be made out to be easier and you will have less angles to clear.So now you play it like any retake,so for mirage you go for the fights like you would in train,you have to make the fights happen so you can win the round and the angles arent even that hard to clear on both maps.It just shows how theres not even a big difference between the 2 maps and have completely different layouts and still have the same number of angles you will need to watch or clear as the other.You just have to get better at the map since you dont know how to clear the angles.

 

55 minutes ago, Lewis said:

-If people have balls and rush out A it's aids to hold without any nades if you're on a low buy

same with any other map lol,how am i going to hold d2 long with no nades and im on a low buy,OH YEAH THATS RIGHT,i gotta go for the aim duels and fight to hold the site.Same in train you have to go for the aim duels since we are low on nades and its not a perfect buy.

55 minutes ago, Lewis said:

-Trying to entry frag with an AWP out of B upper or A main is ridiculously hard with all the angles a CT could be holding

you can actually clear the angles 1 buy 1 and make it easier and use your utility to clear some of them and most likely the cts will be peaking you so while you clear these angles 1 by 1 you probably would get into a gun fight and either miss or kill him.But its the type of map it is,why would you want every map to be the exact same its different and your good at the game so I dont think its that big of a challenge for you to know the angles.
 

55 minutes ago, Lewis said:

-T's regularly get to A main before a CT can rush to defend popdog - which leaves long range the only solution, and when you play a team who know all the smoke grenades to lock off a bombsite it's boring as fuck

The ct can actually get to ebox on time and your not doing a brandon and rushing pop because you usually want to smoke it off and let them push it since its harder for them to walk out and peak you.Also you can hold pop from a site,brown,A2 so there is no need to rush it to hold it but you can if u want,all depends on your playstyle.Also can say the same for any team that knows how to smoke on any other map and lock off the bombsite,BORING,I just wanna shoot people what are these gay smoke lul exde.Learn the smokes they aint that hard all u got to do is line up and throw,theres no jumpthrowing needed and its right in t spawn so you got enough time at the start of the round to get them ready.
 

55 minutes ago, Lewis said:

Don't get me wrong, it's probably a fun map for pro's to play. But you need to think about why people in a prison break community wouldn't enjoy a map like that. As I said, 70% of individual success is aim - frankly most of us just want to play on your mirages, your caches etc, and not guess which of the 25 trains brand0n or extinct is hiding behind.

Most of the people that play the gathers dont even play Jb anymore and most are playing it competitively and are good players (since we mostly only play gathers with good players).5 trains A (if u include a2 train),5 trains b,i know it was a joke but still gotta point it out,Not that its not that hard to clear them.But you just want to aim and shoot things, from what i see,you think its boring that people execute sites and we should all just not learn any nades and go for pure aim battles.

Train is a good map so leave it alone,just because ur not bothered learning such simple smokes or angles doesnt make it a bad map.If every1 didnt know how to smoke mirage A,it will be called a shit map since its aids to walk out ramp and be fucked by all the angles and nades used to stop the push.But im my opinion i think its good that they remake d2,they will make it look nice and fix the amount it rely`s on pure aim battles and have more strats to it.Cant wait to see how it turns out since i used to like the map alot.

[Lewis 1,276]

1 minute ago, Extinct ツ said:

1) learn the map: didnt know you thought your level of cs is that bad to not be able to learn a map thats been in the game for so long.
 

2) You can say that with any map, e.g mirage,lets say ts plant for connector,the bomb is exposed to short,mid,palace,ramp,jungle.Then the 3 ts can be hiding anywhere like firebox,ct,deep palace and if you have no nades on ct then how the fuck am i meant to win this 3v3 unless the ts peak me and its the exact same in train,lets say the ts plant for pop,the bomb is exposed to pop,e box,brown train and heaven, and the ts can be hiding olof,hell,deep a main, pop, heaven.If we got no nades were fucked.But also depends on how to retake the site and where you are coming from and this will make it easier,so back to mirage,1 ct is coming from kitchen going jungle,1 ct is going b short and heading towards connector and 1 ct is already at CT and has it cleared,this will shorten down where the ts are,now on train we say we have 1 ct pushed b and is going pop,1 ct is back A2 and is clearing ivy and 1 ct is going connector.It will allways be made out to be easier and you will have less angles to clear.So now you play it like any retake,so for mirage you go for the fights like you would in train,you have to make the fights happen so you can win the round and the angles arent even that hard to clear on both maps.It just shows how theres not even a big difference between the 2 maps and have completely different layouts and still have the same number of angles you will need to watch or clear as the other.You just have to get better at the map since you dont know how to clear the angles.

 

3) same with any other map lol,how am i going to hold d2 long with no nades and im on a low buy,OH YEAH THATS RIGHT,i gotta go for the aim duels and fight to hold the site.Same in train you have to go for the aim duels since we are low on nades and its not a perfect buy.

4) you can actually clear the angles 1 buy 1 and make it easier and use your utility to clear some of them and most likely the cts will be peaking you so while you clear these angles 1 by 1 you probably would get into a gun fight and either miss or kill him.But its the type of map it is,why would you want every map to be the exact same its different and your good at the game so I dont think its that big of a challenge for you to know the angles.
 

5) The ct can actually get to ebox on time and your not doing a brandon and rushing pop because you usually want to smoke it off and let them push it since its harder for them to walk out and peak you.Also you can hold pop from a site,brown,A2 so there is no need to rush it to hold it but you can if u want,all depends on your playstyle.Also can say the same for any team that knows how to smoke on any other map and lock off the bombsite,BORING,I just wanna shoot people what are these gay smoke lul exde.Learn the smokes they aint that hard all u got to do is line up and throw,theres no jumpthrowing needed and its right in t spawn so you got enough time at the start of the round to get them ready.

 

1) You missed the whole point of my argument. It's not a map I want to learn to get better at, nor 85% of OB for that matter. You can put forward all your personal opinions on the map, but I'm sure at least some of my points stand out for the majority of gather players. Considering train is one of, if not the least played map in OB gathers. Must be a reason for that, no?

2+3) No, you can't say that with any map. If you think retaking A mirage is the same as or harder than retaking A on train then you're lost. There are sites which are notoriously difficult to retake - like B on dust2. But you have to look at the fact it's a closed area, where CTs can pincer from 3 different spots, and the ts are enclosed in an area about 20 metres wide or whatever. On train, you can have the bomb planted for popdog in a 1v1 and the T can realistically be in about 7 positions to be able to win the round. In a 1v1 on B d2, if you've cleared the site he can only be tunnels, unless he snuck past you in the smoke. As someone who's played over 3,000 comp matches, and many of them have been on train I know for a fact that no site comes close to the difficulty of retaking A on train. In a 3v3 or a 1v1 for that matter.

4) Exactly my point though. Why would you want every map to be the same? All of the maps require lots of nade usage, game sense for rotation etc etc. Dust2 was the only map which really brought out the aim in people, and now its gone lol.

5) Maybe you're right, but from my experience I regularly get peeked trying to rush to popdog and die. I also regularly get kills on guys trying to make it to popdog. Take the penultimate round of Astralis vs Virtus Pro final - Snax can't even put a fucking grenade down into A main before he's instantly legged to 10hp and burnt alive (see below)

A train is one of, if not the only map in the game where the Ts can virtually be out onto the bombsite before the CTs can even put up a reasonable defence or get into position, not cool imo. Also a map with 21 ladders or whatever, which you can fly off backwards about 5 metres is also not cool.  

It's not a matter of learning smokes, all maps take smokes to master.